If Light Is A Language, What Is Your Body Hearing?

What if your lighting is sending the wrong message to your biology? We dig into the science of light as information, showing how specific wavelengths trigger opsins in the eyes and skin to set circadian rhythm, shape metabolism, and influence mood, sleep, and aging. From violet and sky-blue that kick-start morning alertness to red and near-infrared that support mitochondrial function, collagen, and nitric oxide, we connect the dots between spectrum quality and everyday health.

We unpack why standard LEDs, optimized for brightness and efficiency, often omit key wavelengths and oversupply blue at night, creating “junk light” that confuses the body clock. You’ll hear how melanopsin responds to 480 nm for daytime timing, how vitamin A, DHA, and zinc support receptor flexibility, and why quantum effects like exclusion zone water and electron tunneling matter for energy production. We also point to real-world applications: blue light therapy for infant jaundice, UV for hospital sterilization, and the growing case for red and near-infrared in recovery and wound healing.

Most importantly, we translate the science into steps you can use right now. Get outside for a few minutes of morning light. Bring in a full-spectrum or tunable lamp for daytime work. After sunset, drop brightness below 100 lumens and cut blue to protect sleep. Consider targeted red or near-infrared for soreness and winter resiliency, and track your changes with sleep scores or glucose trends. Food and fitness move the needle, but aligning your light may be the missing lever. If this episode helps you rethink your environment, share it with a friend, hit follow, and leave a review to tell us what light change you’ll make tonight.

Transcript

Winter, Light, And Health Framing

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the Health Edge, translating the science of self-care. I am Mark Pettis. I'm with my friend and colleague, John Bagnulo. John, good morning, my friend.

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Hey, good morning, Mark. Great to see you.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Great to see you, as always. We are getting deep into the dark winter season. And it seemed uh another good time to bring up some light research, John. I know we talk a lot about the relationship between light and biology, and by extension, circadian rhythm, and by extension, the extent to which circadian entrainment or synchronization really being in tune biologically with day-night cycles is a very strong predictor of longevity, uh, diminished disease risk, et cetera. And um I'm always intrigued by by new research that's coming out, John. And I thought it would be fun to share a little bit more of that today with our with our listeners.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Yeah, I think it's perfect. The timing is great. You know, we're entering this next two-month stretch here, where I think most of us, at least in uh, you know, the northern latitudes, are desperate for natural full spectrum light. And, you know, I think to many of our listeners, when we start talking about the this topic of light, um, you know, I think that sometimes it's misconstrued. Like we're talking about, you know, whether it's vitamin D or we're talking about, you know, just one particular benefit that we would otherwise get from full spectrum light. And I, you know, I think the topic really runs deep, right? I mean, when you know, you're talking about circadian entrainment, and you know, as you'll share with us here in a few moments, um it's even deeper than that. I mean, some of these uh tiny proteins that are you know intricately involved in light sensing, light mechanisms in the body. Wow, I'm just amazed at how much they affect our biology.

Photobiomodulation And Opsins 101

Structure, Nutrients, And Protein Signaling

SPEAKER_01 2:08

It really is an amazing story. And one of the one of the biologic principles that we're going to be um really shining a light on, if you will, John, is this process of photobiomodulation, how light and and particular frequencies of light have unique receptors, proteins. And today we're going to be looking at a at a class of proteins in the eye called opsins. And opsins are these highly conserved, all mammals have them. Um and these are proteins that are specialized to receive very specific frequencies of light. And what we know from this research, John, is that these very specific frequencies of light as they activate these light-sensitive proteins, these opsins, lead to a cascade of biochemical effects. And um uh as we look at this, it it helps me to remember that light is information, and we are, as biologic organisms, right, where are these complex um receivers and transmitters of information? And that information comes to us in many forms through our food, through our uh movement, right, through our relationships. Um but light in particular is loaded with information. And uh I think it's easy for the average person to completely take for granted of just how deep that relationship goes. And if the quality of the information isn't aligned with one's biology, depending on the time of day, the circumstances, their unique needs, then you get these mismatches that you may have no conscious awareness of, uh, but on a deeper level is completely undermining your your metabolic health and and ultimately how you age and uh how you thrive. And and so it's a remarkable story. And I'm gonna um share a few slides here. Uh, I I apologize for those that are listening. Uh, these these slides will be available on our uh website, the health edgepodcast.com. And uh if you go to our YouTube channel, obviously you can see the video with the graphics. So I apologize to be introducing some graphics for those that are listening, uh, but I'll do my best to be a bit more descriptive in what I am uh sharing. So uh these are um just to kind of get us oriented here, John. Opsins that we're going to be talking about, these proteins in the in the eye, um, they sit in the cell membrane. You and I frequently talk about these bilipid layers around every cell, around our mitochondria. Um, they have embedded within them proteins, right? So these proteins are strategically placed in these bilipid layers. And we know that uh in the example of opsins, when the information in this example from light and very specific frequencies of light activate these proteins. And in this example, I think many people are aware of um the specialized cells and the retina, the rods and the cones. The cones are what allow us to see color. Uh, the rods are focused more on night vision. Uh but the the effect that these frequencies of light have on these proteins is to change their configuration. They will change their shape within the bilipid layer of the cell membrane. And then that leads to these downstream biochemical uh reactions that are all highly choreographed and synchronized. And ultimately, in this example, the brain would process this signaling as color. Uh, and in the back of our brain, right, this occipital area where that color comes into focus, we would end up seeing uh whatever we were looking at in the color spectrum that we are sensitive to. So uh this is just a schematic that helps us to appreciate uh how this uh system works on a high level. And the options, uh, and I want to um just acknowledge Dr. Martin Moore Eed, uh, who's a researcher uh from Harvard that I've brought up before, author of uh a book last year called The Light Doctor, which is one of my probably top five books of the year last year. Um and Martin Moore Eed is a remarkable researcher who's been at the vanguard of this of this science for some time. So, this a lot of this information I've learned from him and following his research. Uh but opsons are a family of proteins that detect light. Their specific purpose is to pick up light. And uh the example I gave, right, they play a crucial role in vision. They convert light into these biochemical signals that we ultimately appreciate as what we are looking at. But beyond vision, and I think this is where the story gets even more interesting, John, options have lots of other functions from regulating circadian rhythms, controlling pupil size, sensing body temperature, metabolic uh rate, um, and these options, while we're focusing on the eye, and these examples can be found throughout the body. And I'll look at a few other examples of this. So when light hits that opson, the protein changes shape, it triggers a cascade of reactions, and that leads to a physiological response. So the quality of that, our ability to access that information at critical times during the day will really have great influence on our uh biology.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

And hey, Mark, if I can ask a question here, it's just to make sure that, you know, again, it it might help our listeners and help all of us, myself included, better understand this. Like the analogy I've heard is that when different wavelengths of light hit these tiny proteins, that to your point, they change shape. And the analogy I've heard is it's kind of like sign language, right? You can take your hand and you can make a lot of different shapes, right? That can convey very different messages, in this case to the body. And if you're missing certain wavelengths of natural light, that you can get misconfigurations, right? You get a very different sign, right? And and so that's that's the analogy I've heard. Is that you know, is that kind of your understanding, the best way you describe it as well?

Quantum Biology, Water, And Light

SPEAKER_01 9:26

That's a great analogy, John. I've not heard that, but that that fits perfectly. And it is remarkable, right? There's an intelligence to these systems. Uh you know, these these proteins, uh their function is so highly connected to their structure that uh you can go from being inactive to active by simply, right, you altering the sign that that your your uh language is is looking to interpret. And that's a beautiful uh metaphor. Yeah, absolutely. Let me get back to my screen here. And um, so you know, we know that they're critical for sight, right? So in the retina, these options are really what allow us to absorb light to ultimately form the images that we're seeing in black and white and and in color. And the color perception is is uh obviously very important. Uh humans have evolved to have three types of uh uh uh opsins. Um and uh you know, we have the blue, the green, uh, the red, uh, which which is the sort of the three areas of color uh emphasis, all of which allows us to sort of craft uh the color spectrum and the other colors within that visible spectrum. And then, of course, rods are more involved with uh night vision. And uh again, we we're highly adapted to be able to adapt to dark environments. And of course, as we talk about often, John, our our ancient ancestors uh after sunset beyond fires that they created were in very dark environments. And so much of the uh post-sunset environment now is lit with non-native lighting in ways that uh very few generations before us have experienced. And we talk a lot about that in circadian disruption, and and I would encourage our uh listeners to go back and look at uh some of those recordings that we've done.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

And the one thing we learn, you know, in terms of nutritional biochemistry is the you know, the importance of vitamin A for that rhodopsin cycle, right? To and we know that for instance, you know, a vitamin A deficiency, one of the first signs you see is a loss of night vision or decreased night vision uh ability. And I'm just curious, um is there a similar role for I I don't I'm not aware of one for vitamin A or any other nutrients with the color side of things on opsins?

Melanopsin, Skin Exposure, And Night Lighting

SPEAKER_01 12:10

That's a really good question, John. I um I don't know uh the answer to that, but in my research, um retinol is a key component to all opsins, all um um both uh rods and cones, and retinol is also um uh an important component to opsins in the skin, uh particularly as it relates to uh melanin production, uh independent of vision. And so I think um vitamin A, retinol, the active form of vitamin A is a critical component to uh photobiomodulation, whether it's whether in general, whether it's through the eye and vision. Yeah uh and the other uh I think aspect of that um would be things like uh DHA, um zinc, uh zinc. We know that many uh essential nutrients, uh like um the omega-3s, particularly DHA, um docahexanoic acid, zinc, um, are all playing an important role in the uh structure that allows the protein to um receive and ultimately change shape. Exactly that that that changing configuration.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

It would make sense with DHA given you know all the the if I could use a three-dimensional type model, it has so many different um shapes and twists that when you incorporate that into any molecule, it allows it to act as a hinge, basically. And that's what it does for our phospholipid bilayer. So it makes sense that it would do the same thing for these proteins.

Metabolism Links: Light, Insulin, Inflammation

SPEAKER_01 13:54

Yes. And and it and what's even more fascinating, and I think our our understanding of this is so limited, um, John, but you know, we're talking about uh sort of physical science. These are these are mechanisms that we're able to measure, study. Um we know that there are many subatomic effects of of light. I mean, Einstein got the Nobel Prize in I think it was like 1905, uh for the photoelectric effect. And um this is a once you get into the quantum realm, you're in a a completely different ecosystem of cause and effect. And um, we know that uh these light sources, this information, uh, in addition to changing protein configuration on sort of a macro level, are probably altering the uh the quantum vibrational states of many molecules throughout the body. The the greatest example of that is probably in the research on water, Gerald Pollock's research showing that fourth phase. Exactly, the fourth phase of water where near infrared frequencies of light in that 860 nanometer will change the quantum um structure of water, which alters the layering of water on a more macro level. And that tends to create a charge uh differential, uh almost a capacitor-like function. Water becomes a capacitor, uh, a storage of energy. Uh it it it probably is a huge uh source of information. Water stores information, right? This is uh Masaru Amoto's research showing uh how the many uh crystalline patterns of water molecules change radically in response to the types of stimuli. Uh, in his example, audio uh stimulus, but but we know that any electromagnetic stimulus and light is just a form of electromagnetic energy as a photon. And and so this whole realm we know so little about, but one can only imagine throughout how cells communicate, how proteins communicate. I mean, you know, you're looking at hundreds of billions of um biochemical reactions happening in a very you know compressed time, all choreographed, all synchronized, for the most part, you know, going you know smoothly. I mean, that there has to be a template, there has to be a um uh uh a roadmap that is guiding that choreography. And a lot of that I believe we're gonna find is happening at that quantum level as that information is stored, it's propagated, it's it's interpreted, uh, it's disseminated. Uh it it's truly a remarkable story. And light is at the uh, you know, it can be said that I think, you know, light is is like the language of of the universe. And um uh I I think this is a way in which we can begin to understand the beauty and the complexity of that language.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Yeah, wow, that's well said. It's definitely uh one of a few final frontiers, right, in in terms of that interface between you, as you said, quantum physics and human biology. And I think there's so much to it that we can't quite put our hand on, but we all at one time or another have felt the energy, the general feeling of wellness or well-being when we get outside for the first time in the spring, if we live in a place where you know that light is generally absent. You know, it's just it's remarkable. It's remarkable how how many different directions this goes.

Missing Wavelengths And “Junk Light” Analogy

SPEAKER_01 17:56

Yeah, no question. And anyone who's starting to feel the blues this time of year, right, feeling their energy is in the tank. Uh really fine, you know, those those are um those are you know very important biologic outputs that are manifesting in that way. And a lot of that will be traced to changes in light quality. And that's the body's way of saying I need something that I'm not getting. Um uh so but you know, the um I'll just come back to a few more of these slides, John. Um you know, beyond vision, as we talked about briefly, we know that these these light-sensitive proteins are very important for regulating our circadian rhythm. Um melanopsin is one that has been discovered in the last maybe 15 to 20 years tops, um as a uh an opsin that specifically uh is sensitive to sky blue light frequencies, 480 nanometers. Uh, and this is pretty much what is now recognized to turn on our biologic clocks from that morning cortisol uh surge, that morning adrenaline surge. Um you'll you'll see a down regulation of that, of course, later in the day. So what you don't want uh right after after sunset is a strong stimulus on these melanopsin uh proteins uh in the eye and in the skin, right? It it would make sense from an evolutionary biologic perspective that your um receptors would be in those most light exposed areas. So ultimately, our our eye and our skin are really the the first line um interface of of this uh information that that uh that we can do that. Yeah, Mark.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

So if we yeah, hey, if we can carry that out. I mean, I think the last thing you just said there is really powerful. That if you have these sensors in your skin and you're wearing like you know, amber glasses to try to block out the white, the blue light at night, you may also be very sensitive to just skin exposure to those, let's just call them big box store lights, or your you know, your real high, your four 4,500, 5,000 type uh, you know, spectrum lights, right? I mean you might yeah.

UV, Blue Therapy, And Clinical Uses

SPEAKER_01 20:32

Yeah, absolutely. And I I think we have so much more to learn, John, about um uh just how powerful these non uh visual uh exposures are. And um we have so much more to learn, and and it's really important that this be on people's radar, because if you go into a big box store, as many people may do as the holiday seasons approach, uh it's definitely going to undermine your biology in a way that you know you may find yourself buying the 60-inch high dev TV that you otherwise really didn't need. Uh, or you know, you you may find yourself um too revved up to go home and relax, uh, you know, which may lead to another glass of wine, or uh not that there's anything wrong with that. It's just uh snowball effect. Uh but these are these are uh these are as um uh undermining uh sources of environmental information as one can get, especially later in the day. Uh and and I think as we learn more about the diverse role that these proteins play, John, it it's pretty clear that that many aspects of metabolism, and you and I talk about metabolic health all the time, as really the the holy grail as a predictor of health, longevity, vitality, uh compressing morbidity, enhancing health span, uh and um you know it it's pretty clear that light does play an important role in insulin signaling, insulin sensitivity, um, altering our immune response. And so when we look at poor metabolic health, when we look at inflammation, when we look at disrupted circadian rhythms, uh you you know, altered sleep quality, uh you see how all these dots begin to connect. And uh and you also begin to appreciate that food will only bring you so far. Uh movement will only bring you so far. I mean, critical as those things are, at some point, um people will often, and I know you see this a lot, John. Um, as anyone who who's a caregiver will see, people will often have dramatic responses to initial changes, uh, maybe in their nutritional, you know, their diet, uh, their exercise routine. Uh maybe they're they're doing a bit more stress reduction with meditation or whatever, you know, whatever approach they're using. And then after a while, they they start to hit a plateau where they're not seeing ongoing continued improvement, or maybe they're regressing a little bit. And it's very frustrating when you have that momentum and then you start to see it stall. And and for me, that's always a clue as to the opportunity to look at non-nutrition nutritive, non-exercise, non-meditative uh strategies. And that's what really starts to bring you into this realm of light, circadian rhythm, and really trying to match the information with the biologic need.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

Um, it's a very underappreciated input, as we like to say, right?

Red And Near-Infrared For Mitochondria

SPEAKER_01 23:52

Yes, I I think so. And again, just as we've talked about, John, these these proteins are uh specialized, they they have above-top secret clearance to these frequencies of light, they change their structure. That leads to uh uh uh signaling, these cascades of signaling uh throughout the cell and between cells, um these G proteins are uh often linked uh to these opsin proteins. So once the opson is uh activated, it changes the G protein, which then directs the biologic response. And again, this this is so much more than just the story of vision. Yeah. And this is a bit geeky, John, but just to kind of make the point of uh some of the opsons that have been widely researched, and these are uh um options that are known to have visual implication, and you see they have very specific uh peak uh frequencies that activate them. Uh so we know that in the cones, right, which allow us to see color, the violet blue uh uh color is picked up at this frequency of 420 nanometers. This is violet, it helps us uh uh see blue and um uh uh above that 534 is a is a green frequency, and plants obviously that's huge for photosynthesis. Um and we know that the longer red uh wavelengths in this example at 560 nanometer are the opsins that pick up red together, the blue, green, red really form the trichromatic basis upon which our color vision is established. And then we know that sort of in between there, this really important for night vision, uh where the rods have these special receptors uh for 498 nanometers, very precise in the blue-green zone that is critical for night vision. And these are just a few of the non-visual options that we touched on, John, from um uh the these retinal ganglion cells, uh they're non-visual, they're in the in the eye, uh, that pick up indigo light, uh really important for energy homeostasis, metabolism, uh insulin uh signaling.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

Um, Mark, could we based on that, could we make the assumption that if that particular wavelength was missing and it's intricately involved in in energy homeostasis or metabolism, that it could in a way it could reduce a person's metabolism, it could slow that down. I mean, that's is that the type of you know assumption we could make?

LEDs, Brightness Standards, And Gaps

SPEAKER_01 27:03

I think that is the assumption to be made, John. And when you look at the current sort of industry standards for artificial light, you will see a lack of certain frequencies. And uh this indigo is is one that you'll see missing. Uh and so I do think that is the public health concern raised. What is the connection between not getting sufficient light in these wavelengths particularly during the day when when we've really evolved to receive them? Uh and the public health um epidemics that we see uh in terms of obesity, insulin resistance, inflammation, and all the chronic complex diseases that come of that, uh, is there a relationship? And epidemiologically, uh there's a strong, strong correlation between more time indoors, uh, the advent of LED lighting technology as the non-native source. And now current energy standards that almost put light research and development into a into a pigeonhole that forces them to focus on just the bright wavelength, something that will produce more brightness with less energy, and that um um unintentionally omits many of these key peaks of light, as as we'll look at here, John.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

So the analogy would be these, you know, these really, really bright, intense kind of blue-white spectrum lights, they're like refined, it's like refined carbohydrates, really. Yes, right?

SPEAKER_01 28:46

Yeah, yeah. I mean, that is that that is uh the perfect analogy. This, you know, I think junk light should be thought of in the same way that we think of junk or ultra-processed food. Um definitely the same uh um connections. Um and we know, uh, John, we've there's a lot of research in in various um health sciences, uh, again, beyond just some of the examples that we've been looking at. Uh, you know, we know, for example, that in the uh ultraviolet, right, this is non-visible light. Um, you're only going to get this if you're um out during the peak sun season, or if you have uh an ultraviolet uh lamp, um, which is a consideration for some at northern latitudes. But we know this is really important, right? For ultraviolet A light and uh nitric oxide production, very key for vascular health, ultraviolet B light, we know for vitamin D. We know that uh ultraviolet light is antimicrobial, and many hospitals now will bring in uh a U. UV light source to hit a room when it's vacant, particularly if the uh individual in that room had maybe say C. diffacyl or or another um resistant bacterial pathogen, uh, this has now become a standard of care for sterilization uh of a of an environment. Uh, you know, we know that um uh the you know bluer frequencies, uh what we call the billy blankets, if anyone who's had a child who's jaundice will come home with a billy blanket. Uh these are uh about the 450 nanometer range. Uh these frequencies of light activate the uh light-sensitive proteins in the liver and and stimulate the liver to then eliminate bilirubin. Uh that's think about that.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

Just just think about that for a minute. I mean, that's just a really powerful statement.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

Yes.

Day-Night Lighting Design And Omitted Blue

SPEAKER_00 30:58

That you've got wavelengths of light that are affecting substances that the liver produces, right? I mean, I that to me is one of the I mean, that's one of the prime examples of the biology component to light. It's really remarkable.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

It's completely remarkable. And as a young infant, perhaps uh with uh not mature enough systems to enable that, uh, this stimulates that further, and it's remarkable how quickly uh jaundice will resolve under the uh frequencies of light. Natural light, yeah. We've talked a lot about uh chrono activity, really are biologic clocks. They are turned on, and the the frequency that really is peak is the 480 nanometer. It's the sky blue, um, interestingly, right? That when you look up in the sky, that frequency of light is probably, you know, it's been filtered after after many miles of travel. Uh that color is really what tells every cell in our body that a new day has begun. It's time to turn on systems that we need to be most active during the day. We all have learned about photosynthesis, right? Another remarkable story of a plant. Um, you know, a plant can take energy and turn it into matter.

unknown 32:23

Right?

Infrared Penetration And Practical Tools

Dynamic Bulbs, Spectra, And Programming

SPEAKER_01 32:24

Einstein's E equals MC squared was the first sort of genius demonstration that um all matter comes from energy. And uh the amount of energy and even minute amounts of matter is off the chart, as we as we saw with you know our thermonuclear weaponry back in World War II. Uh um so the the these plants are taking uh light frequency in the green range and um converting that to you know with along with water to carbohydrate. They are taking light and turning it into mass. And uh what an extraordinary uh uh design. And we're just surrounded by it, right? And in our in our world. And then as you get to these longer wavelengths, uh just to just to touch on this briefly, um well, you know, the these red wavelengths are so important, and um many of the standard LEDs don't give you much red uh at all, and none of them give you uh infrared uh with sort of the standard technology. Uh we know this is critical for mitochondrial function, energy production, and we know that photons and the mitochondria, we talk about tunneling. Uh tunneling is a quantum phenomenon where electrons can literally uh go through uh uh matter, material, as if that material wasn't there. Um and um it's all sort of vibratory, these these high frequency resonance patterns. Umria are, you know, we we still have so much more to learn about human biology, but uh again at the quantum uh photobiology level, this is really, I think, a huge issue for all humans. The interaction of red, near infrared light, uh, and mitochondrial health, and and what we know and talk about all the time of the many chronic complex diseases that seem to share disrupted mitochondrial function as a as a driver. Wound healing, um collagen production. Uh we talked about nitric oxide that all that's also stimulated in these red frequencies. Uh, you and I have talked about sulfation, the metabolic ability to attach a sulfur group to uh a protein that renders a very different biologic activity and and and you know water soluble versus fat soluble when you do it. Yes, exactly. I mean it it's uh these things are so profound. And then we we've talked about this exclusion zone water, uh turning water into a capacitor, uh just a very fascinating topic that uh, you know, we think all water is H2O, all water is the same. Uh I think a case could be made that ideally one would want the water in their bodies, what some might call biologic water, to have more of these exclusion zone features where they can readily transfer energy, transfer electrons, uh they almost become superconductors. And we know that um humans, if you if you looked at a human in terms of the molecules that comprise the human, while 70, maybe 60% of humans might be water by weight, 99% of humans would be water by number of molecules. And so um this is really the key to life, and it's anything but an innocuous uh simple molecule when you begin to look at these uh interactions. And and this is just a look, John, at sort of the conventional LED today, um where the light manufacturer needs to be able to produce a brightness without using too much electricity, right? It's it's energy efficiency, uh, you know, the what's referred to as Watts Lumen, um, and 40 is that upper level. So light manufacturers use a lot of the uh deeper blue uh and predominantly green because these are the brightest frequencies that use the smallest amount of energy. So this produces sufficient brightness, it meets the energy standards, uh, but it leaves out, as you sort of pointed out, John, earlier, these these options uh are totally unavailable. Uh in addition to complete uh unavailability of a good part of the red spectrum and virtually no infrared uh exposure. So bright, I can function, um, but not only are you omitting important frequencies for human health, but if you can't turn this blue light down later in the day, you're going to be getting, as we've talked about, a chrono stimulatory effect at a time of the day when you should be turning everything down. And that is the uh the basis for the concerns regarding uh excessive blue light uh late in the day. And so uh it's not only what you're not getting, it's what you're getting uh too much of late in the day. This might be fine during during daylight hours, uh, even though you're still omitting these major uh sources of light information.

SPEAKER_00 38:17

Um but at least it wouldn't be stimulatory, right? So you're you're missing out on certain, in this case, nutrients, let's say, for the body in the way of light. But at least you're not having a uh, you know, three espresso at midnight.

SPEAKER_01 38:30

Yeah, right. That that is a perfect way to describe it, John. I love that translation. And we know that this infrared, uh, and I'm almost done here. I I know there's a lot of uh uh content here.

SPEAKER_00 38:43

Well this one this one is is phenomenal here when you talk about infrared light and penetration.

Sunlight As Gold Standard And Daily Regimen

SPEAKER_01 38:49

Yeah, so so none of the of the typical uh artificial light sources out there have these frequencies of light. And um yeah, as we've talked about, approximately 40% of uh light quality that reaches the surface of this planet is infrared. Yeah, it's it's the it's the predominant uh uh uh frequency of light. Now, there you know there there has to be some significance to that. Uh and and we certainly know uh whether one is using a red near-infrared light source as I use, uh, whether it's a handheld light source that'll hold to a particular muscle or joint that's sore, or whether it's um uh you know an infrared sauna. Um there there are many red near-infrared light sources, some of which are very inexpensive, um, that are just really nice to sit under. Uh these are these are thermal sources, they produce heat, uh, and they're longer wavelengths that have a deeper um penetration. Uh there um um some researchers say that that near infrared light doesn't penetrate nearly as deep as what um um others believe. Uh but again, I think one has to uh distinguish the uh sort of the physical uh uh properties uh you know from the quantum properties because because quantum really starts to fall outside the typical ways in which we could measure penetration, um the these um um patterns of of wavelength and oscillation and alterations in water structure can affect tissues, I believe, in ways probably throughout the body that might otherwise be hard to measure um in terms of depth. And so I think we still have a lot to learn about that. But the but the point is that these are windows of penetration that allow that information, that that light nourishment, I love that, John, uh to uh penetrate.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

And then very lastly, Mark, I've heard that, and again, I don't I'm not sure if it's agreed upon widely, but I've heard that the infrared light can penetrate you know two centimeters, uh two centimeters deep beyond the surface of our skin.

SPEAKER_01 41:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:20

That's that's a that's an enormous volume of cells.

SPEAKER_01 41:23

Yes. Exactly. And when you look at uh quantum effects, you know that um these cells can propagate in a non-material way information literally at the speed of light. So, you know, we don't know what we don't know, but I I think there's enough mechanistically for us to say that yeah, you can probably demonstrate uh near infrared frequencies a couple centimeters deep, um, but might the effects go go far beyond that, and I and I believe they do. And I and and just and again, I want to emphasize that um you know you and I have no um uh conflicts of interest here in terms of uh uh investments, uh uh paybacks from from any of these companies. Uh it it's I offer this because I do think they're at the vanguard of attempting to develop light technology that allows one to have the frequencies they need during the day and to turn down the frequencies they don't need at night, all in one light source. And uh this again, to my knowledge, is um first to market.

SPEAKER_00 42:41

Um and the name of this company is OIO.

Behavior Change, Tracking, And Next Episode Tease

SPEAKER_01 42:44

OIO. Um, if if you Google that, you'll and and Dr. Moore Eid has has been a uh scientific officer. He's really helped promote a lot of the research and development of this technology. Uh they've got reading lights, they've got you know lights that you could put in any fixture, and and they can be programmed. So uh at two in the afternoon, the light source uh will look different than it might look at 6 p.m., uh, which would be different than it would look like at 10 p.m. And all of that in the same bulb. Um and they the these um they give you a cool little um handheld spectrometer, which is which is pretty good. Uh in the day mode, you're getting that violet, right? You're getting the opsins, all of those frequencies very evenly distributed, uh, just as you would get from sunshine. There's no ultraviolet uh here, but um uh and then the as you get into later in the day, you'll see the blue light fraction is completely omitted. Um uh and and then you know, later in the day, uh not only is the blue omitted, but the lumens, the brightness is way down. Uh ideally after sunset, you want to try to keep your uh environment to less than a hundred lumens, which is um you know pretty dark. So the quality of darkness becomes just as important as the quality of light uh at that that time of day. So that was uh a lot of geek speak, uh John, but that's awesome, though. Really fascinating stuff.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

Yeah, yeah. I think it's um, you know, again, I love the point you made. Everybody and myself included, you know, really dives deep into you know how we move, how we train our bodies, what we eat. But I don't, you know, I certainly don't spend um as much time, you know, looking at the quality of light and the different environments I'm in. And I have a vitamin D lamp, um, you know, but I I this is something that I I find to be really fascinating. And I think because it does still entail some mystery, there's so much we don't know about that quantum physics component to it. So thanks a lot. I I absolutely loved it.

SPEAKER_01 45:03

Yeah, oh, you're welcome, John. Uh and I and I do think uh for anyone who's maybe made some great changes in their in their lifestyle and found that they're hitting a wall, this is definitely an area of opportunity worth looking at. And of course, we're reminded, John, that no matter the time of year, um being outside under sunlight, whether it's a sunny day or not, is still the gold standard. Um you certainly won't get as much of that ultraviolet light. Um but there's no no light bulb that can mimic um um soul, right? Our our solar system power source. And uh um and then and then, of course, you know, during those those peak sun months, it's really the morning, earlier morning, and the later afternoon, early evening, where you don't need a lot of exposure to get the benefit of those frequencies of light. Um and then if one is just a bit more mindful um after dark of the light quality in the rooms that they're spending more time in, in particular the elimination of blue light, um, will go a long way to um without a huge expense and without a lot of complexity. Um my light regimen uh it would be um certainly this time of year, uh uh uh full spectrum light in the morning. Um, and I think I may have shared the light source that I use uh for that. It's called Soul Ray. Uh and again, I have no no financial ties to that company. Um, but it's it has it has all that you would want from like rising sunlight. Uh it doesn't have the ultraviolet, but it does have the the near infrared, red, and the full color spectrum. It's a it's a beautiful early morning, and it has over 10,000 lux. So that that that would be the indoor equivalent of going outside otherwise uh and getting that sunlight. Um and then you know, later in the day, um uh you know, I'll just make sure that I'm in a blue-lit-free environment. Um, I might use blue blocker glasses if I can't influence that as much. Um and uh, you know, otherwise it's get outdoors, right? And yeah, and and and you know, take those sunglasses off. And even on a chilly day, you know, five minutes of exposure. Um, and in addition to the light information, the nourishment, uh, you know, you get a little bit of that cold, right?

SPEAKER_00 47:45

Thermogenesis, and um, you know, that can that can uh tweak multifaceted, a multifaceted uh approach to changing your metabolism.

SPEAKER_01 47:55

Yeah, so yeah, our ancient ancestors didn't need to know any of this uh photobiology to it was built into the day, yeah. And that that was um so uh but this can help people develop a strategy that that might be uh you uh you know personalized to the environments that they're in, and uh and then just keep track of of what you might notice, your sleep quality. A lot of people have aura rings and you know, met you know, sleep amps. And so whatever tool you use, a continuous glucose monitor for your, you know, just notice changes. Uh they might be subtle, but they might also be pretty significant. And over time, these these will pay huge dividends.

SPEAKER_00 48:38

Awesome stuff, buddy.

SPEAKER_01 48:40

John, great, great to connect as always. Uh same thing. And uh hopefully uh we can see each other next week. Uh I think it's the day before Thanksgiving. If uh you're perfect, uh you know, willing to be. Absolutely. Maybe, maybe um uh I don't know, John. You're you're you're you're such a um uh you have such a great knowledge of the culinary aspects. Maybe we could talk a little bit about uh let's talk about a traditional Thanksgiving.

SPEAKER_00 49:12

Yeah, a traditional Thanksgiving menu, a menu, and then I will try to give our listeners some very specific details about each of their traditional recipes that they can tweak to elicit improved health. How's that?

SPEAKER_01 49:28

There you go. That sounds perfect, and of course, that that will uh cover the entire holiday season where so where we're all challenged to choose more wisely.

SPEAKER_00 49:40

A lot of overlap there for sure.

SPEAKER_01 49:42

Great, John. Well, good to see you, my friend. You stay well, you too.

SPEAKER_00 49:46

Always great, Mark. Thanks.